Interview with Stability AI CEO Emad Mushtaq¶

We use ChatGPT to generate summaries of the 1.5 hour interview with Stability AI CEO Emad Mushtaq. The full transcript is available below and as you scroll down, you can see the summary of each section. We have summarized about half of the interview, and we will continue to add more summaries in the future.

Emad Mostaque and Peter H. Diamandis discuss everything from AI-generated content and property rights to ethical implications, along with the upcoming hyper-disruption wave of technology in all industries.

Emad Mostaque is the CEO and Co-Founder of Stability AI, a company funding the development of open-source music- and image-generating systems such as Dance Diffusion and Stable Diffusion.

Peter is on a mission to solve the world’s greatest problems. Named by Fortune as one of the “World’s 50 Greatest Leaders,” Peter Diamandis is a Father, Founder, Philanthropist, Humanitarian, and best-selling author. Peter has gathered over $100m to solve humanity's greatest problems. This show is Peter’s effort to share everything he knows about changing the world.

Transcript¶

so again like if you're entrepreneurial be an entrepreneur in this if you are someone you can communicate you communicate this to other people and you get paid a million bucks a year as a consultant right you organize information if you're an artist if you're creative if you're not a tool you become the most efficient artist in the world when you lean in on this you know like systems can be out competed it's like the example of the steel mill right they're a big vertically integrated steel mills that are competed by lots of little steel mills sure micro Mills right the big corporations the big programs the big things will be out competed by just individuals and small groups building on top of this technology can do anything and a massive transformative purpose is what you're telling the world it's like this is who I am this is what I'm going to do this is the dent I'm going to make in the universe welcome everybody Welcome to moonshots and mindsets I am here with a old friend and a new friend uh Imad mustak you might welcome it's a pleasure to have you here thank you for having me we're going to have a such a fun wide-ranging conversation across everything that is of I think importance to anyone listening to any entrepreneurs any CEOs any government leaders any kids everything that you're doing is is really transforming the world let me do a proper introduction Imad mushtaq is the founder and CEO of stability.ai focused on amplifying Humanity's potential through AI you probably know stability AI because of its text to image model stable diffusion released in 2022 which rocked the developer world and I think you know broke the internet is a good way to describe it previously emad has been a hedge fund manager an Autism researcher now has led multiple technology initiatives across multilateral organizations and governments and an X prize competitor today emad is pursuing an incredible moonshot actually a series of moonshots that could transform many Industries you know

I started by saying which Industries are you looking to disrupt and your answer was all of them could do better yeah and I think uh that's not hype I think that's actually from what I understand what we're going to explore true you know uh scientists and technologists have been talking about AI for decades but today is different isn't it yeah I mean we always say this time is different but this time really is to everybody over here I mean if you kind of look at it AI is basically information classification and we had classic AI which was information goes in and then you extrapolate from a data set you create really custom models and it goes out like the big AIS internet 2 was Google and Facebook taking all that big data and then targeting Peter with like ads for Rockets you know and things like that because then you know like rockets um in 2017 we had a bit of a step change where there was a paper called attention is all you need about how to teach an AI to pay attention to the important things fascinating and learn principles yeah printable based analysis yeah so it's not good old-fashioned AI or kind of logic causal based AI but it's kind of that because like um there was a book who was it by um type one type two thinking I can't I can't yeah so you know there's the very logical thing there's a freaking tiger in that bush over there yeah you know and we didn't have that second part we didn't have the ability to kind of just lead to conclusions principle-based heuristic based thinking you know this is kind of the mindset thing right whereby you construct these things it allows you to go very fast to just amazing conclusions that's part of what makes humans humans yes it's here now and it actually works leaping to conclusion but so it's a longer extrapolation based upon data it's actually learning to understand the meaning hidden data exactly it's kind of semantic understanding kind of literally it's kind of called latent spaces hidden layers of understanding so like um I'll give you an example one of the ways that I kind of entered AI was working with AI to do drug repurposing for my son who has autism yes so he was two years old at the time and the doctor said nothing could be done

and I was like of course there's something can be done like let's try and figure out information because what we're looking for is information at each common time it's kind of the Claude Shannon theory of information theories information is valuable and as much as it changes the state so how do you find the valuable information amongst all those autism studies and figure out what's going on because everyone no one can really explain to me what caused it so just one second there because typically people are looking for a very clear-cut answer in the data that's obvious but there are answers but it's hidden it's hidden you know it's kind of hidden and so you have to look at things from a first principles basis when you can't see things just from scanning everything you have to dig down to the net nonetheless and then lay another layer and kind of when I dig down I kind of used AI to do um natural entity recognition look at all the different compounds all the different trials that were tried Builds on the team then built a bimolecular pathway analysis model of neurotransmitters in the brain so it's like just like a common cold it seems like something very similar is happening it turns out there's two track neurotransmitters in the brain one of them is Gaba you pop a Valium and chill out it chills you out and another one is goose mate and glutamate kind of makes your brain accelerate and so you know when you're tapping your leg and you can't focus and concentrate that's what happens because humans are really a filtering entity as it were we have so much information in the world it's just too much so our brain creates a simulation that's why we've got the optic nerve for example filled in instantly we are kind of constrained a little bit and that filtering allows us to focus we all know what it's like when you're tapping your leg because there's too much stuff going on so with kids with ASD they can filter for various reasons but it was different reasons not enough Gaba too much glutamate when you're born gabri and glutamate are actually both excitatory and oxytocin flips the switch on Gaba interesting so we started digging down into kind of the things and we're like ah different compounds can affect this in different ways but then what was the Upshur of that and how is this long story coming to a conclusion because there's too much noise my son couldn't speak because he couldn't formulate the hidden layers of meaning and connectivity on Concepts so kind of we've got cup here yes and he can cup your hands you have a World Cup which England hopefully will win you know and you've got um various other meanings of the word cup you form this latent space of him connective meaning to that so it can be applied in different things the principle-based analysis by reducing the amount of noise you could then filter and pay attention and build that out the AI can now do the same thing so you don't need to have huge petabytes exabytes of data anymore with structured data it can figure out interconnectivity and I want to come back to that because that's the revolution that that you're creating right now just you know these these personalized uh data sets that are are good for you your country your company yourself your context exactly because humans are heuristic animals we learn by principle-based analysis and we're animals that are story based so you have multiple stories that make you up you know from your work on the express do humanitarian to you know bold VC fund and all the things we all kind

of form connectivity there but those stories are very hard to map initially now we can do it dynamically and we can start building tools to re-augment human potential by doing this because we can finally have that assistance we're going to go so much have so much fun on these conversations but I want to take us back to some of people around the world for the last year or so have have heard of Dali and Dolly too and here comes stable diffusion that is an open source version of of Dolly and Dolly too and has as I said broken internet you sent me an image of the speed of growth on GitHub yeah of uh of people using stable diffusion and it was so funny because when you first sent me this image right here you see it on GitHub the the users who are uh like on ethereum over time yeah right and then there's this line that goes straight up that I thought was one of the axis for the graph yeah like what happened there so first of all what is what is stable diffusion it's one product of your company right well stable diffusion is a community effort to build an AI that allows anyone to create anything so words go in and then anything you describe comes out okay forbidden say okay uh so what we did is uh you know the collaboration with various entities uh which we paid an important part in stable diffusion to is kind of led by us we took a hundred thousand gigabytes of image label past two billion images and created a 1.6 gigabyte file that can run offline in your MacBook and create 2.6 gigabyte file which is relatively you can transmit it over over the phone network you transferred over the phone network but you don't need to transmit it once yes everyone having this tiny file that basically compresses the visual information of a snapshot of the internet can create anything from a high resolution render of a apartment to Robert De Niro's Gandalf or anything else and they can now do it in a second cent in a week they can do one of those images in 30 seconds of a second 130 of a second we've just broken real time we had a 30 time speed up in the last week so so when you mention that just as we're getting ready for this I said so you're basically able to render a virtualized world in real time yes and that's one step away from being able to Virtual or to render a movie in real time yes so we are you are we in the verge of basically and in you know we're sitting here in in Los Angeles and you've been in the Hollywood world I mean are we talking about rendering Motion Pictures by just describing writing reading a script and having some you know stable diffusion 3.0 create a film in real time well who needs to write a script get the eye to that that's right you just say it like I want something to make me happy right and then it'll pull together various models and it can live generate a movie yeah so we're live generating so Hollywood so in the next five years yes I think that Ready Player One Oasis World minus the microtransactions of whining teenagers will be here create anything you can imagine iterate it you know dynamic new forms of kind of communication new affordances like all these clicks and things like that you don't need that anymore like this is one of the biggest Evolutions in humanity ever because the easiest way for us to communicate is what we're doing now and having a nice chat right back and forth then the Gutenberg Press came and suddenly you could communicate through written performance harder yes you know

but still you see now gpt3 and other of these AIS have made it easier now for anyone to do anything like chat GPT just came out it's amazing yes everybody's making extraordinary claims about what it's going to do to Google exactly well this generative search engines is a very interesting thing um but then visual communication is the hardest you know like you toil to be an artist or all of a lot of people on this call how much have we toiled with PowerPoint yes we're gonna rid the world of the Tyranny pathway but that's my expertise from how important you know PowerPoint expert you're a communication expert so we remove the barriers whereby any visual medium can be created instantly and you just describe to it how it shifts and because it's got these latents it understands happier or sadder or you can say flamboyant and that's not a word but it figures out what that kind of means but the ability to rapidly iterate it and say okay I don't like that movie scene make it you know happier make it brighter make it more dramatic and then being able to render any form of communications like you just said you know a movie and have a thousand variants I mean what's going to happen in Hollywood I imagine Hollywood quite disintermediated yes Hollywood and everyone's thing I mean what is Hollywood right Hollywood emerged because it was far enough away from the East Coast the IP laws didn't apply right and then kind of it got constructed around here as an entity that extracted rents from performers ultimately and creatives like having creatives like the Hollywood or the music industry or others not many because they tend to be treated quite badly some people achieve Superstar them but a lot of this technology now is just truly democratizing in that things are going from centralized to the edge and we had to create centralized organizations as a people because we didn't have the information classification and communication tools to be more Dynamic it's called the representative democracy it's neither true democracy it's representative democracy exactly at the same time you know everyone speaking at the same time doesn't make sense but what we need like the most successful organizations are complex hierarchical systems there's groups of people working together Loosely Bound for a bigger story and this is what we can achieve as Humanity like the human Colossus when we all come together to do one big thing but it gets blocked by a lot of the stuff because we're not communicating properly like one of the things I tell my team is that you know road maps are not about resources the right communication if you can communicate properly and something's good you'll always get resources for anything it's also about creating a common Vision that everybody's aiming towards in order to get there right so you're not Diversified in Thousand directions So like um Google is full of amazingly smart people right they did an amazing study called Product Aristotle yes because it's like why is one smart team better than another what was it finding the finding was it came out of two things common narrative and ideally something that kind of engages you and there's a bit of sacrifice that you know like the sort of Saleem and I and slim Ismail who you know well who sent his records talk about is a massive transformative purpose having a unifying really compelling emotionally charged Vision that you're heading towards something deep and something that you've put yourself into as well so it becomes part of your story yes as it were yeah

and the second part was psychological safety which I think was very extra team amongst the team the ability to actually express yourself and talk about something without fear of reproach that's what makes the most successful teams because we're too scared often about kind of our status and worrying people and things like that that's also on the research side of things primarily but I think some of these lessons kind of come because when you feel comfortable as a community and you're working towards massive transformative purpose you can do a lot more because when you're falling behind you can communicate it and you're not scared of people judging you and if you have an idea that considered you know Divergent from the from the center you feel you feel open to being able to share it in fact it may well be the right idea and I talk about the day before something is truly a breakthrough it's a crazy idea and if you're scared about actually putting forward a crazy idea then you're stuck well again it comes back to information Theory Sharon style right yep information is only valuable in as much as it changes the state yes right everyone's on the same page with everything flat equals dead exactly and this is a time when we basically have to have exponential progress and now we actually have the tools to help us to make exponential progress like you know Facebook released Galactica recently which is their language model trained on 42 million science papers they made some claims that were a bit high peak and then people like oh you can use this to create racist science papers and so they were forced to take it down but I mean it's an amazing piece of tech and we're going to help re-release it um and this is an interesting thing you can use it to do things like a null hypothesis Creator you can use this AI to do all the sorts of things that enable more Divergent original thoughts or creativity or any of these other things like classically I couldn't because it was out of mode yeah it was out of the data set yeah of course if it's not in the data set then you're screwed where's now you don't need it to be in the data set you can create new data yeah that's extraordinary this episode is brought to you by levels one of the most important things that I do to try and maintain my Peak vitality and Longevity is to monitor my blood glucose more importantly the foods that I eat and how they Peak the glucose levels in my blood now glucose is the fuel that powers your brain it's really important High prolonged levels of glucose what's called hyperglycemia leads to everything from heart disease to alzheimer's to sexual dysfunction to diabetes and it's not good the challenge is all of us are different all of us respond to different foods in different ways like for me if I eat bananas it spikes my blood glucose if I eat grapes it doesn't if I eat bread by itself I get this prolonged spike in my blood glucose levels but if I dip that bread in olive oil it blunts

it and these are things that I've learned from wearing a continuous glucose monitor and using the levels app so levels is a company that helps you in analyzing what's going on in your body it's continuous monitoring 24 7. I wear it all the time really helps me to stay on top of the food I eat remain conscious of the food that I eat and to understand which foods affect me based upon my physiology and my genetics you know on this podcast I only recommend products and services that I use that I use not only for myself but my friends and my family that I think are high quality and safe and really impact a person's life so check it out levels.link slash Peter we give you two additional months of membership and it's something that I think everyone should be doing eventually this stuff is going to be in your body on your body part of our future of medicine today it's a product that I think I'm going to be using for the year ahead and hope you'll consider as well you know when you go to your website I love the notion of AI by the people for the people and then you say stability AI is Building open AI tools that will let us reach our potential let's talk about that because I you know there's a lot of individuals that you and I both know that are fear mongers around AI you know it's the devil it's going to destroy us it's going to superhuman AI is the end of humanity as we know it and I mean my position is AI is the single most important tool we're ever creating to solve the world's biggest problems and we can't solve our problems from where we were before but these are the tools that are going to allow us how do you so how do you address the Bill Gates the Elon to the World on that side the fear side well I think fears are valid because of the most powerful technology we've ever created and it comes from us but then who is us right like if you look our current data sets they're massively biased they're fixed towards the internet and they're fixed towards manipulation the way I kind of look at AI is that organizations themselves are AI they are slow Dumb AI that feeds on us and turns us into cogs in fact I think this is concept of moloch right from the Ginsburg poem you know uh Hal talking about this carthaginian demon that pervades our organizational structures and turns us into these cogs that feeds on us effectively I think this is the first thing that can actually defeat that this particular technology that we have today because is the world happy now how many people in organizations are happy we all know you know we should talk about my idea for a happiness X prize but that's a different government so the happiness X prize but what has happened is happiness is agency happiness is achieving your potential and it's kind of going out there so we need some help but I think a lot of the AI discourse has been focused on gigantic language models and freaking supercomputers which we still have to create something that will equal and surpass us it's very religious in its way and you see parallels to religion across this sure in that you have the kind of declaiming people who like for it the people who call it heretical and then you can't even have most of Ethics in AI it's not actually ethics instead it's Ultra Orthodoxy as it were like in Islamic terms everything is haramonous as declared Halal you know classic Jude Orthodox Judaism et cetera so the same thing people look at Red teaming they don't look at green teaming right and they look at this technology being too powerful so just like cryptography we should

keep it from the people and we definitely shouldn't give it to like emerging markets and people who aren't smart enough to do it and this would be very interesting because again if you think about the power of any believe it's powerful then the question should be what is this and I believe that this AI is infrastructure Clayton Christensen uh kind of The Departed mentor of mine had an amazing quote which is that infrastructure is the most efficient means by which society stores and distributes value obviously that's ports and things like that sure but it's also information sure and I think that's valuable when you can find it with the Shannon Theory so this AI is infrastructure for the next generation of human thought and what does that mean it should mean that it should be a Commons that is accessible to everyone it's kind of LeapFrog and you made a very definitive uh decision to make this an open source movement here yeah um your community is how large now I think we've got about 120 000 amazing in the communities and we created communities across verticals classical open source crew is product related where you have mongodb or something like that and then you go up there whereas we said language Healthcare bioml audio let's get all the people who are fantastic in the private sector public sector actually be independent together and let's jam on how do we build a Next Generation infrastructure the way I put it is let's go to the Future and bring back AI with us nice and we can choose if it's a panopticon controlled by corporations like web2 or you can choose if it's open and infrastructure for Humanity and if it's infrastructurally marketing it's an important point because I'm just finding into that a lot of the naysayers around AGI and Asi and others I would agree with them if it's controlled by corporations which are this type of weird entity that we've created like YouTube optimized for extremism because it was engaging so ice has co-opted those algorithms and they adjusted eventually but it was slow if it comes from us and it's bias and we've broaden the conversation I think AI is more far less likely to kill us all if it ever to become sentient which is a big question you know especially if it's representative so I want to come back to this in Greater detail later but I I think we share a common belief that Humanity ultimately is good yes and it's fundamental level because that's a very important uh distinction if you believe that that humans at their base are good and you're enabling humans with more and more powerful technology they're going to be using that to make the world a better place and solve problems on the whole on the whole up but it depends on what the perspective of humanity is you know you've kind of got uh what's it called the thing when you go to space and you look at Earth yeah the overview effect the overview effects yeah you know like hopefully more people get a space and have that because people are very narrow and they view themselves like that they're Rabbi sax um former Chief Rabbi of the UK had a very wonderful concept called altruistic evil those who actually do even believe they're doing good interesting and you see that like yeah you know if you talk to especially in the religious uh religious or anything like that I'm like Isaiah Berlin's conceptualization uh British philosopher from like the 1940s he had a conceptualization of positive Liberty versus negative Liberty so negative Liberty was the freedom for anyone telling you what to do not to kind of less effect

capitalism and things like that positive Liberty was ability to believe in an ism something big like fascism communism capitalism islamism Etc and people use that as excuses meaning they're doing good to actually do bad but then what how does this all relate to this I believe people inherently want to do good it's just that what good is can become misdefined and co-opted and so my take was if we start building infrastructure where people can see bigger perspectives because they get the information they need what does that look like like what if we mapped all the religious decks in the world so that a child in Egypt could see Judaism for the perspective of a child in Jerusalem we have the technology to do that what if you could automatically Translate tea party tea party republicanism into libertarianism and have commonality there can we finally have the technology to do that but we didn't before so people remain in their huddles yeah they look at the other and they're encouraged to do so we've seen that increase in political polarization so Society is a typical and by the way I mean that's been what social media has effectively done so efficiently because it's beneficial for the algorithms and for the slow Dumb AIS of the corporations that drive it let's come back to the to the company and the products uh just to to lay out the tapestry here um stable diffusion is one product vertical area what are the other ones so for example our Luther AI Community um has GPT Neo and X it's the open source version of gpd3 by openai the most popular open language model in the world has been downloaded 25 million times incredible and so can you take it you customize it for yourself no permission needed right uh harmonize has dance diffusion which is the most advanced audio model in the world uh you'll be able to create your music so you put your own music in it and then you have your own music model that can create more music of your style and you can just basically produce it produce your own concerts extrapolate in any direction you want exactly we have open by ml where we kind of have open fold and Libra fold protein folding DNA diffusion for DNA protein matching and I've been Ella so bio LM for again some protein kind of stuff so in you know we've spent some time talking about uh a passion that I have and and you share which is the ability to truly transform the healthcare industry and in human longevity understanding why we age maybe why we don't have to I think the why is the important part right most of medicine so again when I my son was diagnosed and the scratching a wall to his fingernail spread you know eventually went to mainstream school thanks to interventions and I want to come back to those for those who are listening who have a child with autism or know someone I want to come back afterwards what were your learnings and what's your advice yeah there's a lot in the space that we kind of occupy of course um but like what I realized is that conventional medicine and a lot of things view humans as a gerdic a thousand tosses of a coin the same as a thousand coins cost at once twins coins tossed at once um but humans are individual so for example a good proportion of humans have a cytochrome p450 mutation in their liver which means they metabolize things like fentanyl yes it's far quicker yeah it's a very simple s p test but we don't do it so we just prescribe everyone the same thing and then a bunch get addicted you know because we are individualistic

kind of creatures this is why I went to the first principles thinking kind of approach on this and the question is this personalized medicine thing has always been kind of out there we've not been able to reach it again I think the technology we have right now enables personalized medicine we've seen things like crispr obviously and others but more than that it's about data availability sure and viability but we do need to get to a point where every child at Birth is sequenced and that is plugged into their personal Ai and they understand exactly every food every medicine in every aspect of our of our living affects our our physiology again you go to the Future and you bring back the AI with you and you say what should it look like so you take a whole country and you say how do we build an amazing Healthcare System education system Etc will is there any doubt that Healthcare and education will have ai at the core in 20 years zero well I don't I think it's not 20 years it's 10 years I know but let's just say 20 years you know you and me we're like now now let's say 20 years right but then is that AI open or closed yeah and is it better for it to be open or closed yeah there's no question open is fundamentally critical open is fundamentally critical because then we build it is infrastructure it is valuable like the way that I actually Orient my rights um vinay Gupta as one of the ethereum guys think you probably know him big thinker might be crazy um he had a very great conceptualization of rights which I agree with which is the rights of children and so like effective altruism and all of that looking at people a million years in advance it's kind of difficult and it comes down to utilitarianism all sorts of weird stuff um but the rights of a child rights of a child today yes today what does that child have the right to achieving their potential yes what infrastructure do we need to give that child in a refugee camp or in Brooklyn or in Kensington to help them achieve their potential and this goes back to what's on your website in terms of using AI to help in this case a child in in the broader case Humanity achieve its potential achievements I mean that's everything yeah and so for me it's about I've oriented that on agency and happiness and it sounds fuzzy but it's literally when you have the tools to be able to do anything you know you can do anything people underestimate their agency sometimes you've got to go for your shot as it were yeah um but again it's information what information can I bring to that person what tools can I give them so that they can be creative because we lose that creative spark as we get older right yeah now it's coming back of it you know what can I give them so they can access the information they need to be educated and what's the optimal way to teach linear algebra and that's the way it's all about Play It's All About play it is all about play happiness play all the neurochemistry of your brain is maximized for learning retention experimentation around that it's float it's flow so I used to be a video game investor that was my big sector it was one of the biggest in the world and I used to judge video games by time to fun flow and frustration and so if we're building systems for Humanity we have to look at fund flow and frustration yeah because if we can get those you know when you're just learning something like wow this is amazing and how do you get in there it absorbs amazingly quickly but our education system is not set up for that our Healthcare System

definitely isn't and you've got a messed up Healthcare System yeah it's maximizing for frustration yeah that's where I speak about it openly saying my mission is to crumble and destroy the healthcare system and also education system which is uh which is really sad so again it's very interesting you look at the US and inflation numbers education and Healthcare massive inflation yes everything else not really yeah it's a percentage of the other person's income is it's an and it should be going to zero right the top health care and the top education should be all II driven it's all basically the cost of electrons life expectancy is falling in the US a little bit over the last couple years before suicide before covert it was falling yeah I mean this is the thing whereas again it's not complicated but it does require coordination so the question is can you create shelling points so for me open source software this next Generation this model-based one whereby stable diffusion is basically a programming primitive just like you have a library to do various things for the programmers out there so in the good old days when we started programming we used to have to code everything by hand now you've got GitHub and things like that it's more like playing with Lego right yes and you're sticking it all together it's the new type of thing a 1.6 gigabyte file that is hashed so it can be common across every single computer in the world that you can call something in an image comes out and you know predictably what that is no matter where you are and you can also take an image and put text on the other way yeah that changes the Paradigm but then what if you have that for language audio all these different modalities okay I'm gonna go I'm gonna go here next then on that which is what happens to literal property rights IP rights who owns the IP of those images is it the person who puts the prompt in is it you know help me understand where that where that evolves to that'd be nice nobody knows okay it's a fair answer yeah I mean nobody knows I personally think it should believe it should belong to the person that prompts it because again can we put this out as a Commons for Humanity yeah um like we did put an ethical use license around it for various reasons that will be replaced by a purely open source license but again I'm doing this as building blocks right it's really the person that has the action because these models do not have agency if you're gonna breach copyright you can type in I want a picture of Mickey Mouse and then if you sell that done but it's like photos it's like telephone it's like Internet it's like Photoshop this is a tool but it's a tool of a very different type because like something like Photoshop is a million lines of code this is a binary file that can do anything that photoshop does but you still need to act on it last year there was a patent awarded to an AI in South Africa which was interesting I think more of a gimmick than anything else uh do you imagine these uh these models will lead towards significant uh intellectual property on the invention side of the equation oh hundred percent they already are if you look at Google's new TPU chips they're partially built by AI that they built sure yes I know like we just released um open uh LM from our copper lab which is an evolutionary algorithm for code for robots so we're trying to optimize robotics via that and then when we bring in video we'll have even better robots

so are we going to get to a place where I'm saying listen I'm please invent a device that does this for me that's under this price point that's made a commonly available materials and over you know constrain it left right and center and then design it now go and print it for me and deliver it for me the next day we're going from mind to materialization in one sense yes yeah I mean you know again it's kind of the was it the Star Trek thing yeah it's it's a little bit longer yeah oh my god um Earl Gray tea hot exactly but then you can kind of see this already because like there's an app on the app store right now you put all your Lego out and it scans all the Lego all right nice and what can you build with it yes it comes up with this is how you build it as well so this is just an extension of that again they use a Transformer based architecture for that well I'm interested when uh it'd be fun to say okay create new life forms I mean we're not far from that well you know I'm gonna leave that to other bioethicists I don't want to stuff my foot in that one there's ethics involved in that exactly I mean the life form thing is very interesting though right because again everything is happening all at once and so it's not just biology or physics or sociology all these models all these Technologies all seem to be converging at once so you can create anything and all the barriers are dropping at once yes so and that's complicated yeah so the world is I don't do you think anybody truly understands how fast the world is about to change no I mean like look at creative industry video games 180 billion dollars a year like Disney spends 10 billion a year Amazon 16 billion year on content all of that's going to change in the next couple of years alone just from one tiny little two gigabyte file extraordinary as well as Healthcare as well as education as well as you said every single industry we're gonna so here's another question go ahead please well I was going to say industry is about again information Theory yeah that's most Industries are based on especially service-based Industries and so once you can basically take a system you can have human input in the loop to train a system that's a generalist to understand principles just drop just about everything yeah I'm gonna pause on that because it's it's probably one of the most important things any entrepreneur any CEO any parent any kid anyone needs to understand we're about to enter a period of of hyper uh disruption and growth and Hyper opportunity creation yes like what happens is that in any area you create there are value spikes so you can look at it as like a flat area and then companies and individuals occupy certain areas they've got like a mix of skills right and that's how you earn your living and these are like spikes that's all going to get shaken up and it's going to be the value is elsewhere yeah we don't know where the value will be we've got some guesses so like in a time when everyone can make anything what becomes valuable something yes so if a model that can make anything that means Disney should have their own models right to create Mickey Mouse's and things like that but now they can use that not only internally to save money on creation they can use externally why can't we have Mickey Mouse having coffee with Master Chief at a Starbucks and microtransack pay that it's been the promise of the nfts and things like that now with these models you can do that seamlessly yeah I'm on demand yeah over and over again so one of the realizations for me is that uh this open source technology made available to everyone

effectively has the potential to make everyone the equivalent of millionaires billionaires trillionaires when whatever you want can be manifested right you can have the world's best education for your child independent of where you live and what wealth you have you can have the best health care available you can have customized entertainment you can you know it's we end up in a world in which the cost of anything is raw materials in IP which is going to be disrupted itself and electricity yeah pretty much again like you look what Elon Musk did with the SpaceX right yeah he's like let's break it down towards the constituent cost of this yeah and basically with the first principle thinking on Rocket so that's principal saying it so what I've been doing is first principles thinking on information flow social theory and our systems it all comes down to just information being in the right place at the right time to make the Maximum Impact and if we can give that as an open architecture to the world then we can augment and then replace our existing systems the better ones because they out compete you go to an African nation and you teach every child with an AI that teaches them and learns from them within a few years they will be out competing children in the top schools in New York what if you give them the ability to code the system as well and improve it it becomes very interesting the kids are helping train the AI and the AIS helping train the kids yes but then also the kids can improve the actual code that they have there yeah like this is something we've seen in a virtuous cycle a virtuous cycle and you make that open and then you make it transplantable because what you have then is you have models that are standard like a base so I like to call stable diffusion one was a precocious kindergartner then it was a precocious High School stable diffusion two stable to Fusion 3 looks freaking amazing it's going to be like a university level student so stable Fusion 3 by the way is the real time rendering no that's labeled effusion two that's two okay so again like to give you an example of the thing when we launch table to Fusion one on a top end a100 which is like a super super computer chip right and we have a lot of those we can talk about the super computers in a bit it took 5.6 seconds on August the 23^rd when we launched it to render a single image run in a single image in 512 by 512 okay today it takes 0.9 seconds in 768x768 we've just sped it up 30 times amazing 30 times and I'm still I'm still Blown Away by the real time rendering of the world once you get below 200 to 220 milliseconds of response time it opens up entirely new UI ux and we didn't just release stable diffusion as an image Creator we also released an impacting model so you could take you know Emma's hat and you could turn it red just by describing it we release a depth to image model so you can do Transformations released an upscaler so you can have 64 by 64 image and the AI fills in all the details to take it to 1024x1024 transforms the storage industry for media amazing and this is real time now as well it's and so listen I have to ask you the question but come back to it later which is do you believe we're living in a simulation uh um yes or no yes yeah as do I I think we're living in an nth generation simulation but that's a that's a different story okay we'll come back to that for for folks are interested but okay how far out are you able to imagine this world that uh that you're creating the the disruption of Industries and

transformations how many years out I don't know anymore yeah um like when I started so I founded the entire open source Art Space from January of last year when it started because he had a generator model and then open AI released this clip model which took images to text we bounced things back and forth for each other we're like wow that's the way to do things creators and discriminators as it works and it's advanced advanced sounds like this is the next big thing humans can now communicate visually right it's the next biggest thing since Google make press and it kind of went as expected plus minus six months I thought we'd get to stable diffusion in q1 Q2 of next year and that was a big massive I built a gigantic super computer and everything to get to real time I think it would take another year or two and instead it took like four weeks and like again this is what you mentioned earlier the number of GitHub Starts Now for stable diffusion is more than ethereum Bitcoin and just about everything else and that took them 10 years in three months yeah I I mean again it's the notion that people have no idea how fast the world is changing and is accelerating and it's the it's what you came back to with the common Mission and the energy yeah when you sent your first Bitcoin it was an amazing experience they got overtaken by raccoons and stupidity yeah and they try to create alternative system outside the existing system the interfaces were all the robbery and all the profits were made this is something different whereby you're talking when we talk to developers and the contributors that are increasing in the ecosystem they're so energized and this is what drives things forward like when you see teams that do the biggest things they have the energy it's almost palpable right where it's like that driven thing but we've got people from all over the world like one of our latest developers was an amnest and warehouse worker at the start of the CEO who taught himself to code and now he's building the most advanced models in the world we've got 16 year olds to 62 year olds and it's a team of how big so our team is 137 but the but the developers well but they're teams of one right their team and their individuals are able to use this to create oh yeah so like if you want to create with this you can just do it by yourself so um there's a fantastic Twitter you can look at levels.io and he's like I'm going to create businesses by myself that making millions of dollars of things just because you could took this primitive and you wrap things around it and you're just making money like Avatar me you can put your own face into the model 10 images you can create a Peter diamandis model and we can put you in space in fact we'll do that a bit later so listen you're you're listening your 20 year old entrepreneur you're in college you're you know finished you're skipped College whatever it is what are you what's your advice to that 20 year old listening right now you should drop everything they should focus entirely on this this is the biggest shift ever self-driving cars 100 billion dollars went into crypto hundreds of billions dollars equivalent to 100 billion a trillion dollars gonna go into this sector I don't say that again how much 100 billion the next few years and then a trillion dollars will go into this sector because it's so transformative and so few people understand it there's never been something a technological advance that will diffuse as fast as this so this is electricity this is the Gutenberg Press times a billion this is a good this is a Gutenberg Press times a billion because it's not just writing it's image 3D it's everything it's creation protein folding it create it's creativity and uh extrapolation uh so what does it look

like to focus on this so you're again you say drop everything in focus and I get that and and uh you know part of me is like maybe I should do that too but but what does it look like to focus what would a person do so again like if you're entrepreneur be an entrepreneur in this if you are someone who can communicate you communicate this to other people and you get paid a million bucks a year as a consultant right you organize information if you're an artist if you're creative you become the most efficient artist in the world when you lean in on this you know like systems can be out competed it's like the example of the steel mill right they're a big vertically integrated steel mills that are competed by lots of little steel mills sure micro Mills right the big corporations the big programs the big things will be out competed by just individuals and small groups building on top of this technology can do anything but we and we've seen that over and over again in every ex every converging exponential field we've seen uh entrepreneurs disrupting and the rate of you know I think of this as the asteroid impact that the slow lumbering dinosaurs all die and the Furry mammals the ones that rapidly evolve yeah I mean like let's take a practical example and this is what we said earlier about chat jbt why does anyone need to use Google image search in a year yeah where you can create any image just by describing it and then iterate it just with your words yes just attribution that's it but that's an easy lookup table yeah all right true absolutely I so now let's take it okay the 20 year old drop it start experimenting start playing start using uh now you're running a company you're running uh you know 100 million dollar company worse off a billion or 10 billion dollar company and you see this how fearful should you be and what should you be doing again you should be leaning in to understand this the classical Innovation process inside a company is very limited you should be having kind of uh crack team of people who've just given Freedom say how can this potentially change my entire company you know um but it's hard because you are fighting against the inertia of your company you're following people being used to certain ways of interacting or certain ways of Distributing stuff yeah so this is why I think you have to think and think again from first principles if this technology is real time for us to cross modalities and it can look and understand stuff let's go forward five ten years and work back does my company still exist in this current format can I out-compete that it's not how can I fold these into my current processes and procedures Etc because this is the other thing as a true exponential like the AI research actually in this area 80 of all AI researchers become in this area in the last few years and it's exponential with a 23 month rate of doubling a true exponential the adoption of this now is also exponential because everyone from around the world is using it and then each of those introduces another two people yeah it goes four and four and four so right now it's like a wave that's under the surface it just hasn't come yet next year is when it cracks and the year after is when it crashes all right I hear you and um my reaction is I'm excited as hell about that right it's like because it's about transforming the inefficiency of the world today it's about taking individuals and empowering them to do to giving them agency like you said but this is very interesting inefficiency is where value is created

in the current paradigm in some ways or what values because efficiencies exist what value is captured by inefficiencies so we have to have we go to The Gatekeepers and we give them like you pay your lawyers loads of money right you've got your accountant some other things like that because there are inefficiencies in the system so you pay them to remove the inefficiencies as it were some of these inefficiencies will no longer remain in the system but that means that that value capture will also disappear and again this is why you know you have to start thinking how where does the value look like in the new reconfigured landscape if do you have an example in an industry that exists today and just to make this concrete for someone sure you don't need lawyers anymore uh for everything awesome I mean like you know you've got do not pay.com those are massive things they automatically write your tickets for you and kind of yes for those who don't know it's if you got a parking ticket and you go to do not pay they will figure out the legal loopholes and arguments to get you off your ticket yeah um but like you still need litigators right at what point can you have a robot litigator it's like Phoenix Wright on steroids right um you know if you've got the Again movie creation thing the movie creation is just going to transform completely yeah video games you'll be able to have your own user generated content you know like again people can right now use stable diffusion create any image then go to chat GPT it's an amazing system by openai and they can chat within like oh okay that disrupts a lot of Industries as well because it knows all the different things but it's just a model it's a blob it doesn't look on the internet what happens when you hook up these models that are principle based to the internet stable to Fusion Plus Google image search is actually incredibly powerful but people are just looking at that stable diffusion stable diffusion as part of a pro architecture is incredibly powerful people are making movies so like if you look at our friends at the corridor crew for example um they did a movie called Spider-Man everyone's home where they created a custom model based on the spider-verse movie with Miles Morales yeah a couple of days they created a three minute trailer that blows away anything big studios can do just a few people a few thousand bucks let's go to a few general questions on on AI first of all uh you come out of the hedge fund industry I have to imagine that the day of the trader investing on their own without the use of any of these Technologies is long long gone does anybody haven't you know have any advantage on their own I mean I think that's the thing what's an edge in trading right and again it comes down to information Theory what can move the Apple stock 50 percent very little information what can we have at five percent a decent amount of information one percent quite a lot of information right so we're just looking at the narrative and the incremental Narrative of this because again as humans we're heuristic creatures so like I used to be a specialist in a number of markets all Market was one an oil barrel is fungible going around the world because you can shift it on a ship sure but the impact of a Libyan Barrel going offline was the third is impactful as an Oklahoma Barrel why because of most of the money is in the west as opposed to near Libya so they feel it more and the market reacts more the market is a counting mechanism and a voting mechanism I think the tools that people will use for investment are going to change now because you'll be able to actually visualize stories better and people will kind of introduce that this is kind of why people like invest on themes like ESG and you have these index

trackers and all these other things so I think that's going to be very interesting but then which Industries will be disrupted faster than others we don't know who will be at the edge in the Forefront of this embracing this technology and then who can be left behind we don't know so I think the entire stock market's going to change and adjust it could be a period of supernormal profits and then out competition as well this is against a backdrop of inflation and recession and all sorts of crazy stuff all at the same time so will you be using this technology to assist a hedge Point manager out there on investing yeah I can almost my own hedge fund no look I mean again I think this technology would be persuasive because people again will see the power of this and ultimately like I said investing usually comes down to stories you know like for all influencing influencing human desires and intention exactly like you know if you're doing VC to fund management whatever you just basically you've got a story you can say for all you want that you're trying to be like quantitative and this and that but nobody knows the future so you construct a story but you know you're saying what is the evolution of that story going to be such that someone will buy this from you at a higher price yeah that's all that matters and part of it like you know for entrepreneurs one way that I suggest to look at things is what's the terminal value you get someone to agree to that all you're doing when you're raising money is you're de-risking your path for that terminal value and people don't realize that's all of your assessment yeah it's a very simplified view of it so I'm excited to have you at uh speaking at abundance 360 this year thank you for uh joining us in March thank you for having me um and you know I've dedicated an entire day we've added a fourth day of the program focused on AI because it's just I think people need to understand how powerful and disruptive and a view of what's coming another one of our uh our rock star speakers there someone who you know Rick Roswell and Ray's going to be joining us to speak as well uh and you know it's been raised long-held belief that we're going to reach human level a of like 2029. uh at however you want to Define that um what's your what's your thought about that do you think that that is the case uh how do you think about it I'm not sure I think it's singularity in the array um look again how have you defined I think my ideal view is that a future that's an intelligent internet every person country culture and company has their own models and they're all interacting with each other in an optimal way for Humanity so again I I kind of go to this thing of you know Tim Urban and wait but why when he wrote the article about neural link had this option the discussion of the human Colossus I would like AGI to be something of all of us working for us to make us better and I think part of this is why I'm basically pushing open source and these open source models and I've created an organization that goes and has all these verticals that will then be spin off into independent organizations so we can standardize the architecture across that and it can be an emergent Global Consciousness as it were I think it's important for us to talk about the idea of these uh these models and these these personalized models to understand what that means so when you build a massive model that is trained on everything out there it's not really necessarily useful but you talk about creating models for

Nations for cultures for companies for individuals can you just give us the 101 on that so people understand the power of that and the value of that knowledge evolves at different Paces right like there's knowledge on how to use a toilet that's been with us for many many years you know versus knowledge on Foundation models which is just very new it kind of considerate Fashions is like Pace layering as it were I think the way that models will be built is that you should look at them as like pizza bases so we're trying to figure out what an optimal Pizza base is for a generalized image model then you've got maybe an Indian model with a bit of culture in there and then Indian fashion in there and then Indian fashion for emad to try and be fashionable when he's in India and so you can kind of look at those bases because what we do is again we flip the Paradigm so to try and stable diffusion like we built a 4100 cluster with our buddies at Amazon to put that in context the fastest super computer 1000 a100 cluster is huge yeah to put that in context the fastest supercomputer in the UK Cambridge one is 640. yeah we've got about 10 times the compute of NASA well roughly speaking it's one of the top 10 in the world and next year I'll go 10 times bigger yours will go 10 times bigger yes okay and we make that available to everyone and it's on it's on the Amazon Cloud it's on the Amazon Cloud yeah because it would have been a bit too much for us to build it by ourselves um so we got them to lean in on that and kind of build this uh you know Facebook has 16 000 for example because they're pushing Big metaverse that's the fastest in the world if you want to have an idea but yeah this is an exponential thing whereby we have more than just about every single country and we use that to take 100 000 gigabytes of images and compress it into 100 terabyte yeah 100 terabytes yeah I can press it down so into two effectively so fifty thousand to one compression of knowledge all right and so when you say that compression when you're talking about a neuron that you're you're not all of the connections or the pathways neural net are useful or valid yeah right and so what you're doing is you're choosing which ones are yeah because it pays attention to what the most important and then it creates these latent spaces that you poke with the prompts which are the words that you put in right so like uh open AI for example made gpt3 it was 175 billion parameter model the next step after that deep learning because that's called Deep learning this thing yes like because we spend all the energy and all that compute you don't have to you can then take that base that pizza base you can inject some Peter then you have a Peter model it just takes 10 images and you can put yourself in anything or you can spend a hundred thousand images and do an even more refined model but it forms a basis what's called a foundation model in a way but you can even make it even more efficient so gpt3 is 175 billion parameters so it's like 80 times bigger and they said they said gpt4 was going to be like 100 trillion parameters it could be yeah you know I think the chat GPT is actually training gpt4 right now because what happens is that you have this Foundation but then in the classical day age of Big Data What mattered was who you were so they took your data they built these big models and they targeted you well Metals now in the day of I say big models is how you use the models because not all those neurons are needed we don't need all two billion images right right so gpt3 was 175 billion and they saw how people used it and they identified the neurons that lit up yeah and they compress it down to 1.3 billion parameters so now when you're using chat GPT you're training one of those models we're looking at how people are using it to compress it down so say what Fusion you can compress down even more but then this is personalized model that's very

interesting because you can have almost this standardized Bass and then you can inject your own context into it and the context of your culture your company your community and others and so that base is manual bill in that you can extend out the latent spaces so like in stable diffusion one we didn't really filter it so Mona Lisa is over fit there's too many pictures of moon Lisa so it's very hard to get her out of the picture frame now we adjusted it so you can make her swim very easily because it's not over fit anymore and it'll continue improving and adapting so we'll have better and better bases and in a year's time we'll have a very mature base that people can take an extent so like in Japan they took stable diffusion and they adjusted the text encoder for Japanese culture and then it meant that if you use normal stable diffusion because it's very Western oriented salary man means a happy man yes in Japan diffusion is very sad man yeah very sad man indeed because I understand that context fascinating so in the future if I wanted to you know I'd coach a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of CEO through abundance 360 and so forth if I wanted to create a virtualized version of myself that in in certain circumstances would react in a certain way that's pretty easy it's coming so pocket coach across I wanted to like have Tony Robbins in my pocket on in the right moment or the Dalai Lama it's all possible yeah and that will be probably a four gigabyte file and how far is that from now let's go watch it now you could do it now and you can do it fully realistic like um you know I think I think the term is holy that's amazing yeah um because you have the volumetality you can make it indistructible for me human like stable diffusion 2 is pretty much photorealistic now stable diffusion 3 will break that barrier and obviously we can animate now so again that's kind of crazy that's crazy you know metahumans epic uh kind of epic game style or what Nvidia are doing you can also do human realistic voices with fully emotional range as well so like my sister-in-law Rana runs a company called semantic um she reconstructed Val Kilmer's voice for Val and Top Gun nice I was doing all the video games and if you go to sonantic.io you hear an AI tell you that it loves you and it's really creepy uh she assaulted Spotify so I'm sure we'll have some really engaging podcasts and things like that um and like again across all modalities now in narrow you're achieving human levels and going to human levels of performance and benchmarks from media to understanding to Output and the barriers to putting yourself in like I said you can train a model now in like less than an hour with 10 100 images of yourself to put yourself in anything for a buck because we've done the heavy lifting of millions of bucks of pre-training the model as it were yeah whereas classically AI wasn't like that so if I wanted to create a a virtualized host of myself being able to on screen play me say what I want to say that's here now that's it now like the technology is here now the implementation needs to be there so like um I mean one of the companies we work with is called alessia.ai and so they use our language models and so you can upload your scripts and it'll learn how you speak but then the voice technology they haven't integrated the voice technology we have our next Generation audio technology that'll come in a month or two and then it will learn some of you speak literally I was using last year at a minus 360 I was using a company called Soul machines and they had a virtual humans yes all right and so I would love to create a virtual version of myself for anybody I want and that's here let's see again solar machines is upgrading now thanks to the technology that we're open sourcing this is the other interesting part open source will always like Cloud source because close Source can always take open and add in data yes and they can have very focused teams focusing on certain use cases so we're literally upgrading the foundation of all of these companies as we release these models interesting and then you mix and match and that's where the value is actually who was it who said I think it was my friend Jason or someone else no it was um one of the other VCS most of the money in the world is made by aggregation and disaggregation it just depends on which part of the cycle you're at interesting I I can see that yeah I was having dinner with Reid Hoffman I don't know a month ago or so and he said something which is interesting he said every profession is going to have an AI copilot very soon and I've been saying this for medicine I think it's gonna be malpractice to diagnose without having AI in the loop and we'll see what the time frame is five years is my guess um but I can see an AI co-pilot as an architect as a lawyer as a chef as everything right so how far is that well I mean it's here for code right now yeah right sure so co-pilot literally was called from Microsoft GitHub and then code whisperer now from Amazon they help you write better code it's about 50 speed increase amazing that's what we've kind of measured so far which is insane like you type in I want to have a piece of code that does this and boom is there I maybe need to edit it but it doesn't matter it makes your life easier right yeah uh like say what a fusion is a co-pilot for art so artists use it to iterate rapidly on different concepts and they take it and there's a Photoshop integration and they use it as part of their Photoshop process I used to say that the crowd was the interim step until AI right so GitHub was the crowd and now you've got you know yeah and you know there's questions around you know what was it trained on because it was trained on an entire snapshot of things but again it's like a different type of information flow to the web 2 economy we're going to skip over web three because it was a bit crap and we're going to go to web4 or whatever it is now and you know maybe you'll create web before I it looks like AI if you do a cool logo for that I should get that unstable diffusion to make it I've it's in fact it's listening and it's made it um so uh I love Jarvis from Iron Man yeah uh and I find uh Siri and Alexa and Google Now kind of disappointing uh how far are we from Jarvis so I think Jarvis is probably two to three years um because like right now you've got a Macbook and yeah it's the latest one M2 in front of you yep 16.8 percent of that chipset is a neural engine that's optimized for these Transformer based architectures uh stable diffusion is one of the first models to actually go down to that level and so when will we see that on this machine I think apple is basically aiming for like 70 80 of everyone to have this and you can go from Siri one to three five nice and this is why Apple's been talking about privacy and things like that because there's a new paradigm of the internet whereby the classical web 2 internet was Intelligence at the middle coordinating us and feeding on our dreams and hopes and emotions to sell Us ads now it's intelligence at the edge where by you've got your own Apple ID you've got your own privacy layer and then you've got chips that can run AI at the edge that really understand you that's why the Noggins experience is seamless and Google also realized that so they're building stuff into the pixel phones yeah I think people need to realize that the power of these future systems will call it Jarvis for lack better term is when you give it open access to everything in your life right you let it watch what you're eating let it read it to your emails listen to your conversations because it makes the world the term I use is automatical uh in that regard yeah and you need to have the foundation models to do that because it needs generalized knowledge and then specific knowledge and contextual knowledge that can adapt to your needs this human in the loop process is very important and so there'll be big AIS in the cloud but then a lot of AIS on the edge and they'll interact with and talk to each other and brought up with each other because what these models also do is they take structured data and turn it into unstructured Data so again stable diffusion a few words Robert De Niro's Gandalf you get a photorealistic picture of Robert De Niro's Gandalf yep that's structured unstructured data yeah and then you can go both ways a brief note from our sponsors let's talk about sleep sleep has become one of my number one longevity priorities in life you're getting eight deep uninterrupted hours of sleep is one of the most important things you can do to increase your vitality and energy and increase the health span that you have here on Earth you know when I was in medical school years ago I used to pride myself on how little sleep I could get you know it should be five five and a half hours today I pride myself on how much sleep I can get and I shoot for eight hours 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is my go-to supplement hope you'll enjoy it go to mylifehorse.com backslash Peter for your discount so let's talk about uh something which I have an opinion about I'm curious about yours I think I know it which is the idea of privacy which fundamentally people all want privacy I don't believe it really exists I mean when AI can read your lips when there's data flowing everywhere where encryption what are your thoughts about privacy and how do we deal with it you have any ideas I think so privacy you should always look at kind of what the downside to not having privacy is right actually people are more than willing to go up their data too willing in my opinion yeah everybody's sign everybody clicks that yes I accept this 15 000 pages of of uh of legal exactly and then you know like you have to think as well different paradigms like you know in China will there ever be privacy probably not and you have the social credit score and it's an Opticon being built by AI Etc and the Western parasite what's the downside on the Privacy thing like what if your stuff isn't private it's basically Bad actors using it in certain ways which can include AI algorithms trying to manipulate you I think again what Apple's doing is building a paradigm for actual privacy because it's aligned with their business model even other companies now Facebook and Google have enough information they don't need your data anymore like who actually wants your data I think is a question like we review ourselves as these snowflake like you know wonderful things who actually wants your data at this point but the systems have adopted to do that and policies adopted to that as well with gdpr and all these other things some of them overreach I think a bit but we are moving to this area whereby nobody needs your data anymore and also the sisters are now available to give you that privacy that you want and I think people want to opt in rather than opt out of a lot of different things to get more resources and other stuff finally the final element is that Federated learning has matured now what does that mean so Federated learning is when you take the model to the data so you used to have to ingest all this data and train the models now if it's just like a freaking gigabyte you can send the model to the data it can train and then without saying it's Peter or Ahmad it can Upstream the output so we're seeing that in HDR UK for example Health Data we're seeing it with Melody which is a thing with a lot of pharmaceutical companies coming through to open source analysis of patient data you can finally get that where you don't have to sacrifice privacy to build Ai and models and that's going to be pretty amazing to again Advance the field because you have access to so much more data to build better models amazing let's talk about the the perceived downside and you know I have to imagine that um as much incredible compliments and and the world should thank you for the work that you're doing because of the impact it's going to have you're going to have to have detractors who are worried about technological employment or malicious use of AI or fake news and all of that what what concerns you and I know your your principled man who thinks about this deeply what concerns you most I don't have all the answers like and that's and that's a fairer statement to me yeah I mean like genuinely like what I saw was that very few individuals had control of this most powerful technology and then you know like it's very weird things like people like open source AI is like nukes and like so why should you control the nukes you know it was a very strange kind of thing they're like no only like it shouldn't be open source I was like so why should big companies control it like again we live in largely a democracy we live in a society and so my take was like let's educate people get this technology out there and let's have a common conversation about it because I have my own viewpoints and they're there but again I'm not representative of anyone I'm just me running my own company trying to catalyze this because I thought it was important given the fundamental change of society that will be caused by this technology now because exponentials are a hell of a thing for it to get out there and so you need to make splash so you know I've got hate mail and kind of all sorts of things because it is disruptive and we have to be aware of that it is crazy and it will cause fear and we have to be aware of that and we have to decide to get together how to do that so like for example there are artists in the data set because it's a snapshot right sure it's less than 0.5 percent and so is it ethical legal and moral to have them in there so people can prompt an art style and mash them together I think it is but does that mean that we disregard artists who want to opt out of the data set no yeah because they're part of the global community so we've built it optown and opt out mechanisms and by the way those artists are influencing other artists normally in the course of just them going to museum yeah exactly and you know what we have is now we've had like four or five thousand artists sign up for spawning half of them have opted out half of them have opted in because they'd love to see their work influence the world but how many people really absorb the param to the discussion very few so like I said my thing is that again this is fundamental infrastructure access to this technology is a fundamental human right yeah because otherwise what you're going to have this is a discussion that you know you've had many times superhumans and normal humans yeah the ability to communicate and create makes you a superhuman because just not only images like it's presentations it's being able to like we have voice to voice technology that can allow you to speak more confidently it's interesting I mean people need to realize that today the poorest Among Us in society have more than the kings and queens had you know a couple centuries ago and this is about leveling the playing field this is about this is about this is the technology and this is what I care about deeply and I know you do too uplifting Humanity enabling every man woman and child to have access to Food Water Healthcare education and have a voice and have a voice they are invisible and have dreams yeah and have dreams and have the tools to fulfill those dreams to have agency yes agency is the right word I had a bit of a flipping comment because again I can do what I want in my kind of role I was like humanity is creatively constipated we're going to make it so compute rainbows I think that's great it's a silicon but again it's the reality because people don't believe they can create they don't believe they the mentality and mindset is wrong because people have more agents than they can do an individual can shake the world or the individual can make anything around them better but not if they don't believe they can and this is why art therapy is used in mental health settings to amazing things we've been conditioned to consume rather than create yeah we've been conditioned to be polarized rather than talk to each other and communicate with each other and this can again can change that and again that's why like I said this should be in my opinion a human right it is infrastructure as important as 5G and what I'm trying to catalyze now is not that I build the company that makes the decisions for that but that we put it out there and we're spinning off a Lutheran other things I just figure out government structure it's not the UN it's something else so I think one important point is do you think a world in which uh individuals are held back or restricted feel they have no hope or a world where every mother knows their children have access to the best Healthcare the best education you know the best ability to create that's a more peaceful world in my mind yes 100 I mean look all wars are based on lies okay uh because also for otherwise both sides can be couldn't believe it because humans are humans like to kill another human it's disgusting yeah right and so you have to tell the lie that that person is the other and you have to communicate it and control the means of communication you look at kind of again where conflicts are resolved when people realize they are humans and we're all part of a global Society but our infrastructure has been set up to polarize like literally we can see it visually this is how it happens the incentive structure is misaligned so how can you fight polarization if not by communication and how can you do that if you don't give people these tools and you create it so there is a base foundation for the world so there are generalized models that are Global then every country has its own AI policy using their variance those models yeah and then because it's all standardized we can hop between one and the other Nana is a peaceful future yes and and a future worth working towards creating working towards creating but it's also now is the first time we can build that future because of this disruption technology like that you know governments are there's a definition of a government it is the entity with the legitimate use of political violence right the only one that's a that's a sad that's a sad definition but it's the nature of it right because you saw lots of political violence and then it was Consolidated into one entity they can imprison you yes and they've got an army back in the currency and this and that and that right and governments rule on the basis of pure legitimacy to violence and again we see that kind of thing right so against this what typically changes the government or a society it is an act of violence in some ways it's an act of disruption it can be a technology it can be a revolution or anything like that this is a revolution yeah that's happening just after covid when everyone's thinking holy crap the system was rubbish let's do better yeah I I agree and the challenge is that in the world today you can't transform a government gradually yes and this is why as well crypto there were some amazing things in there and amazingly smart people working there it's rubbish because it tried to build a system outside of the existing system and there was this decision system and then there was the interface fortunes were made there and fraud happened there yeah whereas this AI because it can Bridge structured and unstructured can actually go into our systems out compete them and make them more efficient and bring them forward and it's the first technology they can do that dynamically and at scale or build virtualized systems that are de novo that we spend our time in and opt out of the existing system and into the new exactly and they cannot compete oh the final thing of course is that if you keep it as it is whereby it's controlled by the few they will ultimately use it as a system of control it is the panopticon forever and again we're seeing this in China and other places with a social credit score that's about to be augmented with AI everyone's looking at everyone else monitoring everyone else yeah what is freedom there maybe it's still happiness maybe it's control let's give people the option right let's give people the infrastructure in the building blocks they need to be independent happy and maybe they don't choose Independence maybe it's a bit more kind of book-like that's fine at least you got the choice yeah that's that's because I mean this is again kind of if we tie this all back the fact that you can now have ai that can write better than a human that can draw better than a human that can emote and speak to emotional turns means that let's say for instance take one aspect of it companies that are driven that sell ads they can create the most manipulative ads in the world ever and Regulators will not regulate that that's interesting and they do no but now it's the next step up because they have these latents that resonate so like now when you look at some AI art artists can complain what they want it's resonant when you listen to the most advanced AI voices it's emotional you can feel it it tugs at something and again this is a breakthrough that's literally a year old let's talk about uh the ethics and morals does does AI have a moral compass I think that the creation to have a moral compass well I think the Creator is a very technology is not neutral okay the creative technology do have a responsibility and they will never make it neutral because it embodies their perspective and this bodies the data set and other biases and things like that so I think that AI itself this particular type of AI again if we just take the model it is the action upon the model and then leads to the output so there's a responsibility there but then like how do we adapt them all do we just have a one and done thing that slightly training Western values and norms and mores which is which is the way it's been going historically in the large corporate setting yeah because there's nothing you can do like you can't build a Swahili version of it because you don't have access to technology whereas now with the pre-training and other things like that you can do that with one graphics card that's great right because again we've kind of flipped the Paradigm of and AI needs to be going all the time to this pre-compressed Foundation model so I think that you know then there is the things of like when you've got self-driving cars and other things like that what are the ethical Norms the trolley problem and everything that you input on that these are not easy questions because you're extending Humanity which that means you also extend the ethics of humanity and that is not the same around the world education one of your moonshots uh we first got to know each other through the Global Learning X prize that Elon Musk and Tony Robbins funded uh you were one of the leaders of the one billion team ah that wasn't there I just kind of helped them with Joe idea yes and so uh what so if you don't mind uh what did your team do in that X prize and then where are you taking this Vision so my co-founder Joe and I um Joe LED this made imagine worldwide to take the winners of the x-price KitKat school and one billion who are the real Chicano Champions and implement it around the world yeah into the rohingya camps and Malawi and camps and others like I just support from the side and cheer him along as he kind of goes and does the really hard valuable work but now we've seen that I believe the later stats from the randomized controlled trials because you need to actually implement it when it happens I think 76 of kids in refugee camps learning literacy and numeracy in 13 months without internet yeah it's immense it's like one hour of use per day is the equivalent of them being in school and pretty much yeah because like as one teach up of 300 students 400 students but then is it enough no it's not enough what we've done at the moment what needs to happen is there needs to be a big Grand Challenge whereby you know Malawi and Malawi kind of has said that they want to roll this out at Super scale and to have multiple other governments now that we have the rcts let's make an open source ecosystem that has AI at the core that teaches kids and learn from kids so you take from what's Happening Malawi and move it to Ethiopia Sierra Leone Ranger camps Brooklyn everywhere and so there is a actual Superstar amazingly well created ecosystem for education and again go to the Future and bring it back with us love it this year at abundance 360 Sal Khan is going to be joining us as well have you spent any time with with Sal no not yet okay so I'm excited to connect you guys because you know he's built something pretty extraordinary but his vision is to bring AI to it so that it's AI is generating the content not him and it's and it's able to rapidly iterate for cultural appropriateness and so forth this is why we need to build so one of the things is that we're building National level models um from India to other ones where there's localized data sets and other things if you can get the education piece going remember how I said that um this AI is like a kindergartener or a grade schooler sure it matters what you teach it so right now we're teaching it everything do we need to teach everything no yeah so if you're an AI that teaches the kids and learns from the kids that's the best data in the world to teach an AI for a Kenyan model or a Nigerian model or others and you know who should run that technology Nigerians yeah sure and others sure and so one of the things we're doing it's almost like family based learning and extrapolated from there exactly because we don't know best but we can give tools and we've reduced the barriers to create National level localized cultural models and then those models together form a constellation that not only have you got based learning of like what's the optimal way to teach learning algebra getting better then you can go beyond that to that and you can and the plan is to have an integrated system where it's Hardware software deployment curriculum because then we can update that through Mesh networking or the amazing work of project Giga which is putting high-speed internet into every school in the world by the UN and then you can put Healthcare on that yes and then you have a self-adaptive improving Healthcare System self-adaptive improving education system and then the world I mean for me that it is the that's the calling uh that I think both of us have and hopefully many entrepreneurs here it's like what greater purpose could you have in life than uplifting Humanity in that fashion exactly and then as an Etc manager you can fund that at scale by bonds yeah and the world's biggest problems or the world's biggest business opportunities right exactly so I become a billionaire help a billion people so one of the ways that we're kind of doing it is results oriented bonds whereby you can pledge 20 million dollars for million kids are providely educated on this standardized architecture the invisible become visible and measurable measurable infrastructure banks on the World Bank fund the remainder held by the Pension funds and you can divert billions and billions of dollars into this it's kind of the promise of one laptop a child can finally be done but rather than building a system for today we build a system for tomorrow that constantly adapts and improves is understandable and standardized because that is infrastructure Yes again the thing I really want to emphasize is this ai's infrastructure yeah it's more important than 5G it's oxygen in the room it's oxygen in the room yeah um so when I think about the future of Education going out 10 20 years and bringing it back it today uh for me it's not a book and it's not a flat screen it's going into a virtual world if I want to learn about Plato there's a guy sitting on a slab a marble over there and he says hey Peter come on over let me show you around introducing my friends and it's experiential yes and that that NPC of Plato is trained up by all the knowledge about Plato by every historian and it's accurate and the imagery and so forth and and what you just said earlier about real time rendering from stable diffusion enables that right and the ability to take every historian's work on Plato and train up a model and Plato enables all that exactly and particularly when it is at the hardware level because typically what software happens is that again you build layers and layers and layers of kind of compilers and translations so you're quite far from the hardware this model is already efficient at the top level what happens when we optimize them and push them down to the hardware level don't need internet you don't need anything you can form it but then all of a sudden you have the young lady's Illustrated primer yes Neil Stevenson's Incredible Book and a vision for for the future of Education exactly yeah and but we can make it finally but we can make it more we can make it closer to the prime Radiance and foundation so are you building Hardware you might getting other people to build it for me my life is we're setting the specs but this is the thing who is we okay the way that we're gonna do it is that is it similar to the Grand challenges and the president like let's get together we will drive the process because the rule by committee you know never works but let's invite everyone to participate from the kids using the tablets to code them yeah to the most advanced developers in the world and let's build something for Humanity that's the way to do this amazing amazing so um you don't like the term web3 you wanted to jump over to uh to web4 but this this virtualized world uh which is the convergence of of AI and uh and uh and VR AR blockchain and so forth what where do you see it in the near term going uh it's just going to go insane so like we have technology uh gonna make an announcement in January about some of our technology you've got Apple likely having AR glasses snap oculuses all of this it'll be a fully immersive worlds where you can engage like when I was a video game investor I looked at time to flow fun and frustration yes and I think this technology can adjust all of those and create worlds for us but it'll be a year or two because again now it's percolating and it's getting ready to then create brand new experiences on the Fly for everyone and I think in a couple of years it starts going in five years creativity imagination engagement entertainment is completely transformed within five years within five years it's going to be the biggest shift change that we've ever seen because the incumbents can't keep up with entities that are using this technology that can do everything like what does making a picture look like when you can change it live with just words right and you can say actually make his hair a bit longer or you know get rid of those nostril hairs and it just understands and does it without having to functionality yes intentionality and action yes you know it's kind of you know the whole military thing of observe oriented decide and act right these systems enable that almost flawlessly like if you use open ai's whisper technology the translation of the podcast is just immense and all these other things because it's learned so many principles and they're tiny files and then you can say you could make it so preferential and say improve it the way you think I'd want it improved you can and like we're building technology for example it tells you how good a story is or how good code is yes so then you have a creation and a discriminator they bounce back and forth against each other yeah and they learn from your personal context amazing you took a break from being a hedge fund manager uh to address your son's autism which was uh I mean there are individuals like yourself like Martin rothblatt and others who are like you know I refuse to believe that I that something can't be done yeah and you jumped in um for those who are dealing with autism uh uh personally or in their families or in their Community what were your learnings and what would you advise there's always room for improvement and everyone struggles with something how old is your son today he's 14 14. get super happy um so I've asked budget is an ADHD myself you know I think they balance each other out that's what they say you're doing pretty well that's all right um so I had a lot of kind of issues around those things um but people again everyone's different and then diversity is Australia as it were but sometimes kids and others need help because they can't achieve their potential because there's too much going on so like I said I buy into the Gaba glutamate balance theory of it and so we had some drug repurposing and other stuff on end of one equals case that's not science as it were it's first principles and I don't think it's coherent enough to kind of be brought forward but it's interesting instead I think there are certain things that benefit everyone such as applied behavioral analysis whereby because you haven't built up the words there are short trials to try and reconstruct what a cup means it's quite an intensive process but it's also what people do after strokes and other things that make them lose their connectivity in their brain most of this thing though is about noise filtering and reduction of that but I think percolation of that means that you have to look into first principles analysis of some of the science of what can cause it and then you have to bring that forward to what is safe so don't do kind of crackpot theories but there's an emerging science and study showing things like n acetylcysteine sulfur refrain other things that calm you down are probably the best and large part of it is just connection and engagement there so one of the things that we'll be doing next year is that we're taking all the research that I've done and formalizing it properly because again it's not a case of well I can do it so anyone should have it I did an N equals one case yes but then that should be extended out and this is what I realized when covert came along so I designed and launched with the help of loads of people uh Collective and augmented intelligence against covid-19 launched at Stanford in July of 2020. it was that the actual origin of stability that was the first origin of stability so we didn't incorporate at that time but it kind of put it together I mean it's it's insane how far things have gone in two years yeah I mean we probably actually kicked off in 13 months ago um so yeah it was insane because I thought I saw it coming and I saw it like autism as a multi-systemic inflammatory condition where even now if anyone asks you how does covet actually work if you ask a scientist and they'll tell you we don't actually sure sure like why are ferretin levels high and why is this and that the reality is our base Foundation is not good enough we don't have enough shared knowledge so I created that to create a system as comprehensive authoritative and up to date so there's a nice blog about an OCD type site and things like that a lot of private sector Enterprises that promised a lot didn't deliver and so I realized again this technology was the future and we needed to create open infrastructure for that so when we do our autism releases next year all of the knowledge and everything like that will be available there will be a semantic scholar on steroids which allows you to access the information relevant to the type of autism that your child might have because I basically figured out there were 16 different etiologies or driving conditions but thirty percent of kids will get worse and 26 of kids will get better with the same treatment so it doesn't work yeah this area of personalized medicine needs a foundation and again that Foundation must be common but we can't wait around to do it and it's interesting right the more I learn about the fundamentals of human biology the more complicated you can dig a layer after layer after layer yeah and I don't think it's possible for I mean we're discovering so much because the tools were were using but we're going to need this level of uh of AI to cognitively understand the com the interactions of the systems again it's complex hierarchical system yeah you know classical Hub Simone style and so we have to build new tools to enable that the question is are these tools closed and the companies trying to are they open and so I'll take care is open yeah and then so our business models just scale and service around that which is how all the servers and databases are but open is secure as well that's why Linux is used everywhere versus Microsoft Windows Etc so I think the final part of this is that you know again it's all interrelated like the body is such a wonderful powerful thing if you look at longevity and things like that we need again this first principles thinking to both make us healthy and live longer and be happier yeah um have you thought much about what's coming down the pike with Quantum Technologies and Quantum Computing so like I think uh very sympathetic to various approaches that are like I'm quite I quite like the quantum annealing on the kind of d-wave um because I think that you know Carl Christian's theory around kind of free energy principle and having these low energy states makes a lot of sense in fact this is similar to what the AI models do in that when you look at the latent spaces you're going to the low energy states of what that could kind of mean right um so that's quite a lot of jogging I think for a lot of listeners but basically um Quantum Computing kind of is another part of the puzzle a lot of people try to say one AI model and say oh we're gonna put something it can do everything you know they look at AGR there's a thing that can do everything the human brain is made up of so many different parts and we're just filling in some of the missing gaps right now of which Quantum Computing is one of them yeah and it's it I think it's adding fuel to the fire of how fast things are moving ah yeah it's gonna be and you know it's increasing and we can see it getting there I mean again part of this is a super computer thing right like our super computer we've been the fastest in the world five years ago yeah which is insane for a private company right yes absolutely you know like think about bigger than everything but if you look at like Nvidia is the one that kicked off because they put AI in the core of their graphics cards before this even happened which is why it's now a 32 billion dollar part of their business the av-100s four years ago with the first iteration the a100 so the next now the h100s are like up to nine times faster it's literally going exponential the compute is going exponential the research the Technologies we see as much Technologies everywhere and we're like it's so difficult to piece all these things together see I don't even know where things will be in a year let alone five years later ten years I think that's an important part and this is what when Ray talks about the singularity you know it's the notion that we're you know the ability to predict what's going to happen next has become impossible and that time frame you know people say What's it gonna be like in 20 years I can barely think about 10 years from now or five years from now let alone 20 years yeah and this affects the way that we act so the way that our brains work is that our default is decision making under risk so we look at the upside downside of something and we make an expected utility calculation based on that because systems are stable is the world stable now no yeah you know so what do we do instead we make decisions under uncertainty which is we minimize for maximum regret you know or actually just minimize for regret yeah so with these powerful Technologies people like don't give them out because I don't know what can happen it's the it's the uh it's the amygdala it's a dystopian point of view it's minimizing our downside protecting what we have it's a scarcity and fear-based animal brain you know reptile brain that we default to and this happens synchronicity that's what we saw with covert it just happened all of a sudden everyone thought the same right it's what we're seeing with tech layoffs and things like that yeah like Facebook makes loads of money why are they laying off you know things like that yeah and so we have to be kind of aware of this because what's happening now as well is that the classical system has reached its end we've borrowed too much money from the future and now we are going to a negative sum game with inflation and other things people are losing wealth rapidly that leads to unstable Nash equilibrium from a game theoretic perspective so we go from one steady state and Lurch to another inflation to deflation to maximum employment to job losses to fiscal stuff and it's just going to be a crazy few years and that's the reason I call it stability that was one of my questions word you know and obviously there's there's a terminology of stability in the in the in the models that you're building but stability in order to help stabilize Society yes build a human Os or catalyze a human OS because it can only be built by Society we're just a capitalist yes help guide that in a way because this AI can be finally the thing that can stabilize a complex system that is humanity and the knowledge to achieve our potential at a platform a infrastructure platform that uplifts all of humanity yes and again it should be run by the people for the people so like our subsidiaries in the countries we're putting aside 10 of the equity for the kids that use the tablets and I'm never going to take a penny out of any of them until ipoing them because they should be owned by the people I love that okay close this out with two uh two topics uh around the moonshots and mindsets um if I were to launch an uh emod X prize fully funded uh and push it out to the world what isn't what's a Grand Challenge in xprize that you would love to see uh materialize out there I think this education is the key one I think it's the next step of Global Learning which is a Grand Challenge just to build this system and especially for low-income countries again like the Delta on the impact can be so massive on this because it's infrastructure for the Next Generation like a lot of these Emerging Markets leapfrogged straight to mobile phones and Skip computers yeah now they can skip to the AI age how amazing will that be it'll uplift everyone it and and there's no greater asset to a nation a company anybody than the intelligence of its of its citizens citizens are intelligent they don't have access to be able to take that intelligence and build you know to build for themselves and extend that we can make that infrastructure now to do it for the first time ever yeah amazing amazing what are the mindsets that have allowed you to be successful do you think I talk about a abundance mindset a longevity mindset a moonshot mindset an exponential mindset curiosity mindset but any of those resonate for you or are there other mindsets because I think mindsets are the most important differentiator that we have so like I've always been very lucky and I've achieved very interesting things I was never really motivated for the last few years when I finally applied myself and what I'm good at is first principles thinking on this first bits rather than atoms but I realize there's nothing I can't do there's nothing people can do anything yes if they put their mind to it but they have to think in a structured way and they have to let almost water flow as it were so what I always try to do is I try to make it a win-win for everyone to participate to help to extend this and at a time of absolute change you can make that happen um so this is why I go to the Future and I go back to the past and I work back that way which I think a lot of people don't because they get stuck in the present so it's the moonshot mindset looking to the Future and again recursively back propagating and I'll close out with uh if you were going to list the moon shots that you're working on right now you're clearly working in education we've talked about that but as someone who's my disrupt all the industries uh Healthcare as a moonshot I am working on everything everything I've got about 18 different ones but education is cool and creativity is cool those two enable everything else if you want to fix climate if you want to fix hate if you want to fix a lot of different things get those two right and that's the foundation for the future it's a pleasure my friend uh what a fun conversation uh excited to share your wisdom and vision with the world excited for what you're creating as a as a fundamental platform and infrastructure for Humanity uh I wish you all the luck and look forward to supporting you any way I can thank you very much again it's just a little Catalyst it'll be everyone else that drives this forward see you in March at a360 Cheers Cheers everyone this is Peter again before you take off I want to take a moment to just invite you to subscribe to my weekly Tech blog today over 200 000 people received this email twice per week in the tech blog I share with you my insights on converging exponential Technologies what's going on in AI how longevity is transforming adding decades to our life in the tech blog I often look at the 20 meta trends that are going to transform the decade ahead and share the conversations I've had with Incredible Tech thought leaders on how they're transforming Industries if that sounds cool to you and you want to try it join me go to dmads.com backslashblog enter your email and let's start this weekly conversation let me share with you the incredible progress we're seeing in the world of technology and the positive impact it's having on our lives again that's diamandis.com backslash blog looking forward to sharing my insights an incredible breakthroughs I'm seeing with you every